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What Brian labels the religion with no name. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. So we move now into ancient history, but solidly into the historical record, however uneven that historical record is. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. Thank you, sir. Which, if you think about it, is a very elegant idea. But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. I'm going to stop asking my questions, although I have a million more, as you well know, and instead try to ventriloquist the questions that are coming through at quite a clip through the Q&A. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. It's interesting that Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in the beginning of the second century AD, refers to the wine of the Eucharist as the [SPEAKING GREEK], the drug of immortality. Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. The Wanderer | Old English Poetry Project | Rutgers University Pagan Continuity and Christian Attitudes: When did Paganism End? So, I mean, my biggest question behind all of this is, as a good Catholic boy, is the Eucharist. Here's the proof of concept. I mean, so Walter Burkert was part of the reason that kept me going on. BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. So why refrain? These are famous figures to those of us who study early Christianity. The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App They did not. The most influential religious historian of the twentieth century, Huston Smith, once referred to it as the "best-kept secret" in history. What does God mean? Nage ?] That's, just absurd. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. Now, it doesn't have to be the Holy Grail that was there at the Last Supper, but when you think about the sacrament of wine that is at the center of the world's biggest religion of 2.5 billion people, the thing that Pope Francis says is essential for salvation, I mean, how can we orient our lives around something for which there is little to no physical data? There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. Those of you who don't know his name, he's a professor at the University of Amsterdam, an expert in Western esotericism. Well, let's get into it then. Did the ancient Greeks use drugs to find God? I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. Before the church banned their use, early Christians used - Substack The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? : r/AskHistorians - reddit If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. Maybe I have that wrong. A combination of psychoactive plants, including opium, cannabis, and nightshade, along with the remains of reptiles and amphibians all steeped in wine, like a real witch's brew, uncovered in this house outside of Pompeii. But what I see are potential and possibilities and things worthy of discussions like this. And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. It's really quite simple, Charlie. An actual spiked wine. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . I am excited . Was Moses high? Studies linking religion and drugs gain traction Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - Podchaser She joins me for most events and meetings. PDF The continuity between pagan and Christian cult - Scandinavia I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? And please just call me Charlie. So in my mind, it was the first real hard scientific data to support this hypothesis, which, as you alluded to at the beginning, only raises more questions. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." So I want to propose that we stage this play in two acts. In the same place in and around Pompeii, this is where Christianity is really finding its roots. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. The Tim Ferriss Show. In fact, something I'm following up on now is the prospect of similar sites in the Crimea around the Black Sea, because there was also a Greek presence there. Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. Here's another one. So the basic point being, as far as we can tell, beer and wine are routinely mixed with things that we don't do today. And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. I imagine there are many more potion makers around than we typically recognize. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . So this is the tradition, I can say with a straight face, that saved my life. And I think there are so many sites and excavations and so many chalices that remain to be tested. And Dennis, amongst others, calls that a signature Dionysian miracle. Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. Let's move to early Christian. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. I mean, the honest answer is not much. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. . The Continuity Hypothesis of Dreams: A More Balanced Account Then there's what were the earliest Christians doing with the Eucharist. And I wonder and I question how we can keep that and retain that for today. Like in Israel. He's the god of wine. But I realized that in 1977, when he wrote that in German, this was the height of scholarship, at least going out on a limb to speculate about the prospect of psychedelics at the very heart of the Greek mysteries, which I refer to as something like the real religion of the ancient Greeks, by the way, in speaking about the Eleusinian mysteries. 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism Material evidence of a very strange potion, a drug, or a [SPEAKING GREEK]. The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? Continuity theory - Wikipedia Now, what's curious about this is we usually have-- Egypt plays a rather outsized role in our sense of early Christianity because-- and other adjacent or contemporary religious and philosophical movements, because everything in Egypt is preserved better than anywhere else in the Mediterranean. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. What the Greeks were actually saying there is that it was barley infected with ergot, which is this natural fungus that infects cereal crops. I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. Not much. I know that that's a loaded phrase. And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. It seems to me, though, that the intensity and the potency of the psychedelic experience is of an order of magnitude different than what I may have experienced through the Eucharist. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". And besides that, young Brian, let's keep the mysteries mysteries. And I want to say that this question that we've been exploring the last half hour about what all this means for the present will be very much the topic of our next event on February 22, which is taking up the question of psychedelic chaplaincy. But we do know that the initiates made this pilgrimage from Athens to Eleusis, drunk the potion, the kykeon, had this very visionary event-- they all talk about seeing something-- and after which they become immortal. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. And I did not dare. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. But clearly, when you're thinking about ancient Egypt or elsewhere, there's definitely a funerary tradition. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. The Tim Ferriss Show - Transcripts Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? I can't imagine that there were no Christians that availed themselves of this biotechnology, and I can't imagine-- it's entirely plausible to me that they would mix this biotechnology with the Eucharist. It is my great pleasure to welcome Brian Muraresku to the Center. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. And in his book [? Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. Others find it in different ways, but the common denominator seems to be one of these really well-curated near-death experiences. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. And keep in mind that we'll drop down into any one of these points more deeply. Here's what we don't. And that that's how I-- and by not speculating more than we can about the mystical supper, if we follow the hypothesis that this is a big if for some early communities of Greek speakers, this is how I'm finding common ground with priests both Catholic and Orthodox and Protestants. And at the same time, when I see a thirst, especially in young people, for real experience, and I see so many Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, obviously, what comes to my mind is how, if at all, can psychedelics enhance faith or reinvent Christianity. And she talks about kind of being born again, another promise from John's gospel. Or maybe in palliative care. I'm paraphrasing this one. So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. Brendon Benz presents an alternative hypothesis to recent scholarship which has hypothesized that Israel consisted of geographical, economic . I mean, in the absence of the actual data, that's my biggest question. Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. Others would argue that they are perfectly legal sacraments, at least in the Native American church with the use of peyote, or in the UDV or Santo Daime, I mean, ayahuasca does work in some syncretic Christian form, right? It's not the case in the second century. What does ergotized beer in Catalonia have anything to do with the Greek mysteries at Eleusis? But I'm pressing you because that's my job. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. You won't find it in many places other than that. That's how we get to Catalonia. 36:57 Drug-spiked wine . CHARLES STANG: Wonderful. So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. And Hofmann famously discovers-- or synthesizes LSD from ergot in 1938. The Immortality Key - Book Review and Discussion - Were early - Reddit Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. First, I will provide definitions for the terms "pagan", "Christian", The only reason I went to college was to study classics. So my biggest question is, what kind of wine was it? What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. The Continuity Hypothesis was put forward by John Bowlby (1953) as a critical effect of attachments in his development of Attachment Theory. So listening right now, there's at least one orthodox priest, there's at least one Catholic priest, an Episcopalian, an Anglican, and several others with whom I've been talking in recent months. And you're right. This book by Brian Muraresku, attempts to answer this question by delving into the history of ancient secret religions dating back thousands of years. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. I wish the church fathers were better botanists and would rail against the specific pharmacopeia. Brian C. Muraresku (@BrianMuraresku) / Twitter